Metal Yarmulke
Thursday, January 15, 2004
 

Man, the stuff you can buy on eBay!



It vanished from the online world minutes after eBay learned of the joke, but an attempt to auction off the state of West Virginia drew 56 bids and nearly enough promised cash to fill the state's budget hole.

By Tuesday evening, with five days to go in the sale of item number 2372779353, "Entire State of West Virginia," bidders had bumped the ante up to just $1 short of $100 million.


Bidding probably would have hit $2 million if indoor plumbing had been thrown in. Or dentists' offices.

The auction description went in part:

I, as emperor of West Virginia, have been appointed as steward of this sale...You are bidding on the ENTIRE STATE of West Virginia. Please note that this auction does not come with governing rites, nor the inhabitants of said property.

He says that last bit like it's a bad thing.

You also may not change the state flag, bird, or so on. This is merely for bragging rights, or to hang a sign in your garage that says, "I own West Virginia."

Also please note, you will have every right to succeed from the union, but that has been tried in the past without much success. I am also willing to relinquish the seat of "Emperor" FOR FREE!


"The Emperor" (no relation, I'm sure) must have flunked American history as well as spelling. West Virginia certainly did succeed by remaining in the Union, but it did not secede from the Union.

This is a surefire item to impress the ladies, rub in your brother-in-law's face or impress Japanese business clients...Please NOTE: Item must be picked up in person.

Spoilsport. What fun it'd have been for the winning bidder to walk into MailBoxes Etc. and say, "You guys say you'll ship anything, right?" 
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Sunday, January 11, 2004
 

A Letter from Godwin



A friend sent me this Salon story the other day.

"Two online entries out of hundreds in MoveOn's TV-spot contest compared Bush to Hitler, and Republicans cry "hate speech." But they're the ones who are twisting the truth."

I'd never heard of Joan Walsh before, but a quick Google shows that TrogWatch mentions her in the same breath as Ted Rall, which tells me a lot.

I emailed back, "Whatever. If the apology makes MoveOn.org and Joan Walsh feel all warm and fuzzy, I'm happy for them." I also recommended my friend check out this Gary Cruse post expanding on a Matthew Stinson turn on phrase: "defining extremism down."

The reply: "Not everyone thinks that MoveOn should have apologized. Feel free to verify for yourself whether or not the person [who wrote this piece] actually has family that died in the Holocaust."

Why, I asked, is that relevant? Even if the person lost every single relative in the death camps, the essay is just one person's opinion. Assuming s/he speaks for all Jews so affected is like assuming Adam Shapiro speaks for all American Jews on the subject of Israel and the Palis. (See especially comment #3 in that last link.) Meryl Yourish — who states clearly that hers is "not a blog for Bush" — has referred to those who make such arguments as "trotting out one's pet Jew."

The blogosphere hosts and is visited by no shortage of people who lost family to the Nazis yet support Bush...because they see the Holocaust gearing up again, but this time in Israel. Mein Kampf and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion are best-sellers not only in the hostile countries that surround her, but within her borders, among Arabs who enjoy more rights there than they would in Jordan, Syria, Egypt, or Fraudi Arabia.

So far, I've seen nothing to eliminate the possibility that Bush is on the same course as Hitler. And I've seen far too many analogies to dismiss the possibility.

Analogies that have been successfully fisked many a time by many a blogger. But here we go...

The propaganda. The lies. The rhetoric. The nationalism.

The first three are standard settings for any government. The fourth sounds more like just about any European nation at some point in the last century and a half than it does the U.S. at any time.

The flag waving.

Oh, right. Patriotism = nationalism. Most evident when, immediately after 9/11, we rounded up all the furrin-lookin' people in the U.S., shot them, and dumped them into mass graves.

The pretext of 'preventive war'.

Love the sneer quotes. The left has turned them into quite the art form.

The flaunting

Flouting, not "flaunting." OK, the writer probably speaks English as a second language, but sheesh, the editor should have caught that.

of international law and international standards of justice.

I'm trying hard not to laugh here.

As hinted in this Instapundit post, some people really need professional help for their fixation on "international law." All countries overwhelmingly follow policies that serve their own best interests. Funny how the U.S. is held to such a higher standard ...and no, I don't buy the argument my friend makes that we should be, any more than I buy the argument that Israel should be.

(Abundant sneering may be found when one Googles on the quote "The Constitution is not a suicide pact," purportedly by the late Supreme Court Justice Robert H. Jackson. As I live in a redoubt of self-important sneerers, however, I can't say that such natterings impress me much, especially since 9/11/01.)

The disappearances of 'undesirable' aliens.

Reams of obfuscation in that sentence. First of all, who other than the left has actually used the word "undesirable"? If anything, the right is eager to bring in more illegal aliens...for economic reasons, which my correspondent, for one, regularly decries in discussions of job outsourcing.

Second, it seems like the U.S. has far more of a problem in forgetting about all the aliens it admits into the country than it does persecuting any of them...and the descriptions I've heard of GTMO from what I consider reliable sources didn't make it sound like persecution to me.

Given the piss-poor performance of the Office of Homeland Security to date, I wouldn't be surprised if there are still dozens of visitors here from countries with histories of terrorism that have "vanished" ... not into an Ashcroftian Auschwitz, but into their ethnic communities, untracked by any monitors of immigration.

The threats against protesters.

Whaaa???? "Threats"!? What, angry calls to talk radio shows, letters to the editor, and blog posts and comments?

Goddamned fucking pussy-ass babies. They want to be called "brave" for their "protest" and "dissent," which, we've been told endlessly, is in and of itself patriotic. (Thus these folks are THE biggest patriots in the Yoo Ess, bar none, as they're dissenting from what every other American believes, even creationists, who by and large were fooled by the "moon landing" [see Question #14] in '69.) But let there be heard one discouraging word, and they're screaming "censorship"...while, ironically, many of them are
enthusiastically censoring conservative viewpoints for real, especially on campuses
.

The invasion of a non-threatening sovereign nation.

"Non-threatening"? I won't touch that one. I will ask, however, why the "sovereignty" of every nation is so sacred EXCEPT when it's the U.S. or Israel.

Or Algeria, when it's the French who are acting unilaterally.

The occupation of a hostile country.

This is a bad thing?

The promises of prosperity and security.

I suppose W. should have made like Dhimmi Carter and told everyone to turn their thermostats down to 55F and put on two sweaters in the house, stop blow-drying their hair, and buy stinky self-composting toilets.

The spying on ordinary citizens. The incitement to spy on one's neighbors — and report them to the government.

I've never claimed the PATRIOT ACT was the best way to go about things — I have quite a few reservations about it.

In any case, didn't the Commies, rather than the Nazis, perfect this as a tool of political terror? I'm just wondering, rather than merely tossing out the word "Commie" for insult value, because I happened to find this test online last night. Haven't taken it yet, but I plan to.

The arrogant triumphant pride in military conquest. The honoring of soldiers. The tributes to 'fallen warriors.

Yes, because $DEITY forbid we honor those who risk their lives to protect us. Maybe we should scrap the entire military from the Pentagon on down and create a new Department of Hand-Holding and "Kumbaya" Singing.

As for "arrogance," a favorite charge by the EUnuchs...Freud had a word for this: projection.

Someone I met just last week in an utterly non-political capacity noticed my "First Iraq, Then France" bumper sticker. Shortly afterwards, he volunteered the information that he'd worked (in an IT capacity) in the local office of a French company, and had to deal with HQ a lot. He used the word "arrogant" several times. ("Incompetent" and "rude" as well.)

The diversion of money to the military.

"Diversion"?! Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but the underlying implication I read here is that military funding is always unethical and improper.

The demonization of government appointed 'enemies'.

"Government-appointed"?

You know, I've never heard the Bush Admin say one nasty word about the French, the Germans, or the Belgians (or, unfortunately, the Saudis). Is Mike Powell sending out some sort of subliminal broadcast that makes people like me boycott cheese and wine from those countries and refer to them compulsively as "The Axis of Weasels," even if we don't own tin-foil helmets?

The establishment of 'Homeland Security'.

Want the INS back?

The dehumanization of 'foreigners'.

Sneer quotes again, I see. Last I checked, "foreigners" was a perfectly acceptable word for those living in foreign countries. And many of them do a yeoman's job of demonizing themselves.

The total lack of interest in the victims of government policy.

If he's talking about people unjustly accused under the PATRIOT ACT, there's hardly a lack of interest, including among people to the right of center, as I've pointed out recently to my friend.

If he's talking about people who have actually been caught plotting violent acts against American citizens, or funneling money to those who do...um, count me among the profoundly uninterested.

The incarceration of the poor and mentally ill.

The problem with the severely mentally ill, at least as far as their homelessness is concerned, is that they're no longer "incarcerated." Their self-appointed "advocates," who see nothing inherently wrong with never showering and screaming in public at one's voices to shut the fuck up, were the ones who insisted upon this "freedom."

It's highly debatable which is worse, treating those with very serious psychiatric issues à la One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, or letting them sleep on sidewalk grates in weather such as we're having now in Boston. And I've known enough such unfortunate people (including one very sweet and generous-natured man, about 40 years old, who was allowed to suffocate to death while he was restrained face-down on a table) that the previous sentence was not at all typed flippantly.

As for "the poor," funny how the poor who commit crimes go to jail, while those who don't ... don't. (Oh, and for the record, rich and middle-income people who commit crimes should go there too.) But this has jack shit to do with the WOT, which is most definitely why it was brought up.

The growing prosperity from military ventures.

And I keep hearing all the time about how the WOT is gonna bankrupt us. Make up your minds, fer crissakes...

The illusion of 'goodness' and primacy.

Huh? Explain this to me, please; I never took any po-mo classes in kollidj.

The new einsatzgrupen forces. Assassination teams. Closed extralegal internment camps. The militarization of domestic police.

We are now leaving charted waters and taking a sharp and decisive turn into the Ocean of Raving Paranoia.

Media blackout of non-approved issues.

Oh, you mean like when the New York Times, L.A. Times, CNN, AP, Reuters, et al. suppress news that doesn't jibe with the "quagmire" storyline?

Blacklisting of protesters — including the no-fly lists and photographing dissenters at rallies.

Seriously, somebody please send me some links verifiably demonstrating that every mook in the U.S. with a "Let's Not Elect Him in '04, Either" bumper sticker is on a no-fly list.

As far as photographing "dissenters" goes...first of all, it isn't illegal, nor was it before PATRIOT. If you're going to tackle that issue, you've got to deal with the entire cultural phenomenon of security, traffic-light, and other hidden cameras. Second, if Our Brave Dissenters are hanging out in crowds with violent tendencies — and there have been quite a few such tendencies on display in the putative "peace rallies" of the last few years — I can't really blame the cops or anyone else for wanting their pics on file. This doesn't seem to be a new police tactic anyway.

There isn't much doubt in my mind — anyone who compares the history of Hitler's rise to power and the progression of recent events in the US cannot avoid the parallels.

Wait, didn't the writer admit, "I'm no expert on WWII" at the beginning?

I'm not, either, and I'll readily admit I need to brush up on history. But everything I've written above should make it clear that I don't consider the parallels to the '30s to be the making of the Bush Admin.

Is Bush another Hitler? Maybe not, but with each incriminating event, the parallel grows — it certainly cannot be dismissed.

I'm not sure exactly which logical fallacy the previous sentence is an example of, but it seems to me the author is trying to cover his/her ass while smearing Bush at the same time.

it looks as if Karl Rove is reading Hitler's playbook to plan world domination — and that is the stated intent of both.

Look, if you want to equate PNAC with "world domination," be my guest, but if you want to equate it with the National Socialists, show me the goddamned "showers." If you can't, then shut the fuck up.

From the Reichstag fire to the landing at Nuremberg to the motto of "Gott Mit Uns" to the unprovoked invasion and occupation of Iraq to the insistence that peace was the ultimate goal, the line is unbroken and unwavering.

The writer obviously needs more psychiatric help to deal with the paranoic ramifications of his/her PTSD.

Already, appeasement has been fruitless — it only encourages the brazen to escalate their arrogance and braggadocio.

The use of "appeasement" in this context would ordinarily lead me to label the writer either highly disingenuous or deeply stupid. Again, I'll be merciful and suggest a higher dose of medication.

Americans support Bush — by a generous majority — and mass media sings his praises while indicting his detractors — or silencing their opinions completely.

Oh, man. He not only needs a prescription, but a subscription...to the New York Times. Or does the mere existence of FOX NEWS cancel out the influence of every single other mass-media giant in the nation...not to mention overseas?

The American people seem to care only about the domestic economic situation — and even in that, they are in complete denial.

Projection again.

They don't want to hear about Iraq,

Yes, we DO! But we'd like to hear a balanced picture, rather than the equivalent in paragraphs of a body-count ticker for Coalition personnel.

and Afghanistan is already forgotten.

Hardly, unless it suits your argument to assume such. And note that Allan Forkum doesn't hesitate to criticize the Bush Administration at the bottom of the post.

Even the Democratic opposition supports the occupation of Iraq.

It does?

Everyone seems to agree that Saddam Hussein deserves to be executed — with or without a trial.

This is a person who survived the Nazis, but doesn't believe someone who systematically killed and tortured people by the hundreds of thousands doesn't deserve death? WTF?! Did he oppose the death sentences handed down at the Nuremberg Trials, too? If so, at least he'd be consistent.

'Visitors' are fingerprinted.

"Visitors" are not American citizens and have never been entitled to the full slate of rights that citizens have.

How do other countries treat their "visitors," btw?

Guilty until proven innocent.

Show me ONE civil court case that has proceeded from this presumption. Military tribunals have always operated on a different basis.

Snipers are on New York City rooftops.

Um....'70s flashback? Could be Nurse Bloomberg's fault, I s'pose. Where's Bernie Goetz when you really need him? Perhaps we could put the newly-sprung John Hinckley into some sort of training program...and tell him it's Jodie's idea.

When do the Stryker teams start appearing on American streets?

I dunno, but I myself look forward to seeing heavy-metal Christian hair bands thrashing out "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" on my local sidewalks...oh, wait, that's Stryper. Sorry.

The Constitution has been suspended — until further notice.

I've already commented sufficiently above to clue the reader in as to what I think of this assertion. Last few paragraphs snipped because any responses would likewise be mere rehashes.

UPDATE I: Another friend (who, I'm almost certain, does not agree with it any more than I do) sent me this TruthOut essay today, by its executive director, Marc Ash. I don't have the time or inclination to deal with it in its entirety, but I did note this bit: And who are these bloody Europeans who keep comparing Bush to Hitler? Take that German Justice Minister, Herta Däubler-Gmelin, who compared Bush's dealings on Iraq to those of Hitler. That really takes the cake, now doesn't it? What do the Germans know of Hitler anyway?

Apparently not much, as they're constantly comparing Ariel Sharon to Mean Mister Mustache, too. And that sixty years after Hitler's death, they still haven't figured out how to deal with all those pesky neo-Nazis. Granted, they're a much smaller country with a much larger pool of white supremacists than the U.S. is and has, but making martyrs of them by prosecuting them for "hate speech" hasn't exactly worked very well.

UPDATE II: The Sunday edition of the Boston Globe ran this op-ed by the eminently reasonable Cathy Young (what's gotten into the Globe lately that they're actually publishing pieces by people who make sense?). I like how she tackles the disingenuity of MoveOn.org's claim that the "Bush = Hitler" ad just "slipped through": Maybe it was an oversight. But it's also possible that MoveOn staffers did not realize just how offensive these spots were because Bush-Hitler comparisons are not viewed as beyond the pale on the left side of the political spectrum.

Do note, however, that Young also criticizes conservatives for falling into the Godwin trap, specifically Ralph Peters for his rather over-the-top comparison of Howard Dean to Hitler, Goebbels, Lenin, Trotsky, and Brezhnev in the January 5 New York Post. "It's a wonder that Mao and Saddam Hussein didn't make the cut," she observes. Though Peters is an astute and much-needed observer of international politics, whereas Dean is IMHO utterly unfit to assume the presidency, I agree with Young's take. It's rather hard to lambaste one's opponents for using the single nastiest analogy in modern-day politics and retain credibility when one is resorting to it oneself.

(Jeez, but it'd be nice if the Globe's webmasters could figure out that the entire point of putting an article online is that it can be linked to related stories. There's not one hyperlink in the entire Young op-ed. It does seem that Peters' Post essay is neither still up nor has yet been archived at nypost.com. However, I did find this page of four letters written in response to it. They can fairly be said to run the gamut.) 
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Dumbass Stalinist Meltdown



Glenn Reynolds has mentioned this, and Charles Johnson at Little Green Footballs has been all over it.

"Open Letter to the Global Indymedia Network from SF Bay Area IMC

by San Francisco Bay Area IMC Saturday, Jan. 10, 2004 at 4:58 AM

"Introduction

"It is with much sadness and urgency that we inform the greater indymedia community about the ongoing crisis within the San Francisco Bay Area IMC.

"Previously, we had attempted to resolve internal conflicts among group members by engaging in formal mediation, which ultimately resulted in an official split of the group into two and a list of specific actions upon which each side agreed. This letter is being sent out only after these agreements have not been respected by the new SF IMC collective that has split from us."

<big-ass snip>

*****************

Summary of snippage: "a few of" the technically oriented members of San Francisco NaziIndymedia fell out with the other Indymidiots and demanded that the "collective" be split in two. Supposedly (1) things got worse after the split and (2) this is the fault of the horrible "splitters" because (3) everyone else wanted to remain one big dysfunchappy family.

Quote: "[T]he aforementioned tech members insisted that they would split anyway, because they wanted to and because they could." You can almost hear the "neener, neener, neener!", can't you?

The letter goes on to accuses the "splitters" of, post-split, "making viscious [sic] and false accusations about other members of the collective. This even went as far as accusing some members of being security risks and/or police informants." Next accusation: the "splitters" began acting, like, you know, Nazis, man, by "kicking...all other IMC members" and member groups off the linefeed.org server.

Soon a "neutral professional mediator" was called in and held a bunch of meetings. Because Indymedia was being hindered in its important work of saving the world and new blood was being driven away, Indymedia's moral majority eventually threw up their hands, let the split stand, and gave up the sf.indymedia.org domain to the "splitters," while keeping indybay.org and creating a new domain, sfbay.indymedia.org.

Since the agreement was finalized on Nov. 13, the "splitters," according to the letter, have reneged on the agreement "in multiple ways," chiefly censoring posts of news stories, refusing to put info about the split on their site, "engaging in tactics of doublespeak," taking money out of the joint bank account (I had no idea anti-capitalists condescended to use the running-dog capitalist-pig banks!), and various actions that "violate the indymedia Principles of Unity." If you care that much, click on the link — I can't be arsed to list them.

The letter concludes with a list of demands: mainly, that the "splitters" give them back the indybay.org domain and forfeit all access to/control over it, that the new sf.indymedia.org's status as an IMC be revoked, and that they get their money back both from the splitters and for the costs of mediation. (There's that pesky capitalist aspect again...)

Of course, the signatures are preceded with, "In solidarity,".

And now for the fun part...THE COMMENTS!!! And glad I am that I saved them, because, as I predicted would happen when I emailed this story to friends last night, The Borg Collective has deleted the most entertaining of them.

In fairness to the snipes I take at Indymidiot spelling and grammar, or lack thereof, I didn't clean up same in the comments. All I can say is that with that expensive Berserkeley ed00cayshun, you'd think our homegrown Che Guevaras could learn how to write properly. I blame the schools, myself.

---------

Comrade
by Tapir Saturday, Jan. 10, 2004 at 11:09 AM

"Judean Peoples Front... We're the People s Front of Judea! The only thing we hate more than the Romans is the fucking Judean Peoples Front!"

Morons.

---------

collective?
by yakkity yak Saturday, Jan. 10, 2004 at 11:10 AM

Collective?

What the hell? Don't you people have the slightest idea how to run an organization. Collectivist structures are about the worst way to organize anything beyond the scale of half a dozen peole or so. I guess you are learning that lesson the hard way. You could just read a little history or maybe some "...for Dummies" books and save a lot of problems. But I know you won't pay attention to me.

Enjoy your fiasco.

---------

Group Decision Making Lesson
by Tapir Saturday, Jan. 10, 2004 at 11:15 AM

"...we had attempted to resolve internal conflicts among group members by engaging in formal mediation, "

DENNIS:

I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week, but all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting...

ARTHUR:

Yes, I see.

DENNIS:

...by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,...

ARTHUR:

Be quiet!

DENNIS:

...but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more major--

---------

It sounds all so very ... totalitarian
by Alexander S. Saturday, Jan. 10, 2004 at 11:25 AM
Gulag Archipelago

This would be hilarious except that you people want to be trusted with power. One can only imagine what type of shenanigans you people would be pulling if you ever controlled the levers of governance. You'd be sending each other off the gulag.

[Alexander then provides this appropriate Amazon.com link.]

---------

priceless
by roger Saturday, Jan. 10, 2004 at 11:34 AM

have you considered submitting this soap opera to the networks? or maybe a mastercard commercial?

---------

by the way
by roger Saturday, Jan. 10, 2004 at 11:36 AM

both lgf and instapundit linked to this so you can expect LOTS of people to stop by and make fun of you

---------

Grand Wizard of Information
by Joey Shibadoo Saturday, Jan. 10, 2004 at 11:36 AM

I ask all members of the indymedia network to help hold these individuals accountable for their actions.

How can you anarchist have anarchy and hold anyone responsible for anything? I think you've all just learned an important lesson that most people learn by the time they turn 9.

Good luck, idiots. Life is hard. It's harder when you're stupid.

---------

Hee hee
by Drone 4 of 11 Saturday, Jan. 10, 2004 at 11:53 AM

Heh. "Resistance is futile! Your politics will be assimilated! Or we'll throw a snit! We'll hold our breaths until we turn blue!"

Jeez, you humorless lefties take yourselves way too seriously.

---------

"Animal House" meets "Animal Farm"
by Snowball Saturday, Jan. 10, 2004 at 11:53 AM

All Indimidiots are equal.

Indimidiots who understand technology are more equal than others.

---------

Guess collectivism doesn't work with more than one viewpoint.
by Rayonic Saturday, Jan. 10, 2004 at 11:54 AM

Hey, no wonder socialism hasn't worked so far. Perhaps if we were the Borg, eh?

---------

The Left will eat itself
by Shadow Merchant Saturday, Jan. 10, 2004 at 12:02 PM

Oh no, the splittist running dog lackeys are wreaking havoc again! Every time we get a nice little revolution going, dammit, it happens again. It's just not fair! <stamps foot>

---------

Indymediot soap opera
by veebee Saturday, Jan. 10, 2004 at 12:31 PM

Hey, I'll watch it!

---------

Resist the Fascist Meatball
by Sid Viscious Saturday, Jan. 10, 2004 at 12:40 PM

I mostly stopped by for some cheap laughs, but I thought I'd at least point out to The Collective that I suspect y'all mean "vicious" rather than "viscious". Viscious means thick, sticky, not flowing well, etc. Making that change will probably remove at least 0.001% of the unintentional humor ...

---------

Comrades...
by Banagor Saturday, Jan. 10, 2004 at 12:50 PM
banagor@nerra.com

Comrades..comrades....

Can't you all just get along?

You know what The Collective does when members start to malfunction.

I will have to introduce you to Natasha, our interrogator:

"Pig. Capitalist Pig. You will be finding yourself in gulag. You are not thinking party-like thoughts. You are enemy of State — of Collective State of People's Republic of Revolution. Perhaps you are Capitalist spy from Americans. We will dealing with you soon. Collective Socialists do not fight unless introduction of American Blue Jeans and Rock and Roll is introduced into Socialist Collective Society. We will be wanting names of your Capitalist contacts in America. You will talk. We have ways of making you talk.

This Sunny you speaking of, she must be infiltrator Capitalist spy to undermine Revolutionary party. This is not acceptable. Re-training is essential to Party Collective. I will reporting this to the Collective Politbureau and you will see soon new home in gulag."

www.nerra.com/broadsword

---------

Mr
by Anonymouse Saturday, Jan. 10, 2004 at 1:37 PM

The ones that know all the Star Trek characters were the splitters.

---------

Mr
by Anonymouse Saturday, Jan. 10, 2004 at 1:40 PM

Uh, I think half a dozen or so people sums this group up about right...

---------

A Solution for All
by Banagor Saturday, Jan. 10, 2004 at 2:01 PM
banagor@nerra.com

I have posted the following solution on the other site as well. I mirror it here in the spirit of coexistence between both parties:

Comrades,

I have a solution.

We first must adopt a resolution on both sides which confers the powers of mediation upon another party which will be binding towards that final mediated decision.

Next, we must internationalize the conflict. I suggest that the U.N. and the European Union be called out to mediate for both sides.

Both sides have legitimate grievances which we all must take into account and understand. Baymedia is struggling for independence while Indymedia is struggling for a homeland after decades of hiding behind Fascist agendas which sought their destruction. Both have the capability for coexistence and both sides should be heard on an equal level. We must deplore all acts of violence or invectives from either side on an equal level.

Next, we must formulate a plan which divides the assets of both parties into pre-1999 borders. These epithets in the forms of letters are mere walls of papers, and we must tear down these walls which keep one side from interacting with the other. The indiginous populations must be allowed to survive and flourish on their own terms.

I believe Sunny to be a paid informant by the Capitalist puppetmasters who are trying to divide each side. Obviously this is the case as both peoples existed in a Utopian system before her arrival and it was only after her arrival that trouble started brewing. This sort of "ethnic cleansing" and "censorship of ideas" which happened was not the result of the leaders of Indymedia or Baymedia which told their own followers to get out, but the machinations of Imperialist warmongers who want to control the entire Technological and Idealogical territories which they deem granted to them by the holy printed word of Karl Marx. Both sides have equal claim to these areas and neither should be ignored.

Before we all start throwing stones and shooting off slurs, I suggest that we sit down and talk it through with the mediators. I suggest we draw in Hans Blix to verify that no DNS or IP addresses have been hidden, or texts censored or wiped out without verification. After this matter is resolved and either side makes amends, we may pursue other gestures of friendship and trust. It is a long road to peace, but it is worth the effort.

So please, put down your keyboards and sit down to talk like mature adults. Perhaps a one-site solution is not acceptable to either side, so there is room for a two-site solution here, as long as either side can accept return of followers from one site to another.

Then we will have mutually agreed peace.
www.nerra.com/broadsword

---------

Splitters!
by JK Saturday, Jan. 10, 2004 at 2:37 PM
nn@nnnn.com

Somebody help me out here... are we the Peoples' Front for the Liberation of Judea, or the Judean Peoples' Liberation Front — I've forgotten.

Whicever we are, the other guys are bastards!

---------

Serf
by Bennett Saturday, Jan. 10, 2004 at 2:55 PM

Now we see the violence inherent in the system! Help! I'm being oppressed!

---------

96 of 69
by 69 of 96 Saturday, Jan. 10, 2004 at 3:31 PM
node@theleftyborg.com 345-345-9876 451 node@theleftyborg.com

<delete Photoshop of The Borg with text, "Who runs Indymedia? Why do you ask?" because I'm still a l@mer without image hosting>

You ungratefull bastards.

Have you not sampled the nectar of chomsky?

The genius of master Zinn?

Have you not tasted the completed turds of Marx?

How do you expect to build your dystopia with silly questions and subversive articles like this?

HOW DARE YOU QUESTION THE COLLECTIVE!?

WE KNOW WHATS GOOD FOR YOU AND THE ENTIRE PLANET!!!

REPORT EMMIDIATELY TO THE RE-EDUCATION CAMPS!

---------

UN/EU moderation
by Natasha Saturday, Jan. 10, 2004 at 3:43 PM

I'll see to it that this proposal will be passed unanimously.

---------

Communists
by Natasha Saturday, Jan. 10, 2004 at 3:46 PM

What's wrong with Communists? Comrades, unite to prevent the resurgence of McCarthyism!

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AH HA HA HA HA!
by Amos Saturday, Jan. 10, 2004 at 4:18 PM

Oh this is too delightful.

The old-style communists had this problem until Lenin consolidated power around the Bolshevik core, ending the endless debating and petty backbiting in the only way commies know how, with purges and executions. Then it was clean sailing on to complete totalitarianism, the terror and the gulags.

You filth make me sick, but thank God you haver been utterly and humiliatingly destroyed, to the point where you're reduced to arguing over the leftovers of some dipshit leftist website.

You're finished. Like the Big Lebowski says, "The revolution's over, the bums lost."

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The solution
by George Leroy Tirebiter Saturday, Jan. 10, 2004 at 4:25 PM

You shall report for re-grooving immediately to the corner of Euclid and Non-Euclid Avenues!

**********

The comments on the mirror site are mostly petty bickering over who said what and who did what to whom; IMHFO, the catfights are more entertaining over on LJ. But last night I saw a few gems there as well.....

**********

I read with glee
by I read with glee Saturday January 10, 2004 at 10:19 AM

I read with glee... Indy is so fucked up... it is indicative of the management of the resources and the personalities involved.

We, on the Right, observe with snickers and hilarity!

KEEP IT UP GUYS.... YOU ARE CERTAINLY PROVING YOUR WORTH! YOU ARE ACTING LIEK RAGING POLITICAL CAPITALISTS !

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aba
by notwo Saturday January 10, 2004 at 10:42 AM

vell it iz all overs de news, dat there are 3 agents in ourz midsts.
very soon they vell be coming to take-us-away haha, to the funny-farm, with laughing and hissing with glee.

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Let me get this straight
by I'm confused Saturday January 10, 2004 at 12:59 PM

you guys are fighting for "ownership" of the "property" of the "collective?"
Hmmmmmm.....

**********

Plenty more schadenfreude on the above-linked LGF posts.

A friend wrote me to defend Nazimedia:

At least they're settling their differences without violence.

So far.

That's what politics is all about.

Unless it's politics against your actual enemies — that is, anyone who disagrees with you, especially if they're JewZionists — which the L3 ("Loony Liberal Left," if you don't read LGF very much) seems to have absolutely no problem with whatsoever.

I wonder if you'd describe a GOP factional fight the same way?

No, because it's a lot funnier when a factional fight happens to a collective that supposedly amassed itself via the physical forces of peace and love.

Or the factional fight that resulted in the Brown Shirts being thrown out of both the Nazi Party and this plane of existence?

I declined to dignify the placing of this question immediately after the previous one by answering it.

Meanwhile, "Stu" drops a steaming pile of insight at Randal Robinson's blog: "Wow, what a briliant observation. Groups of people sometime [sic] do not get along. We better notify the Nobel folks, I smell an award comming [sic] your way!"

Yes, groups of people sometimes do not get along. Which is why collectivism is a shit way to organize more than about four or five of them. 
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Something to offend everyone. Flame me at reginleif[at]comcast[dot]net.

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